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jott27
Expert Helper
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 457
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject: Continue Bookup Issues |
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After the interesting discursion into the exploration of the relative merits of the various CB Engine Managers, it is time to come back to re- examine Herbs critical Bookup assessments.
| theHerbinator wrote: |
Fifth, I still have the MSbyDM(tm) Enhanced Backsolving Table, seen above the new Table, here from the authoring of Page #1. I have not yet used this New Backsolving to complete authoring of Page #2, because seeing the state of the Candidate Move field after Bookup Backsolving is so discombobulated that it alone will make you stare in disbelief. Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked; |
The D92 Bookup image shows an assessment value of +24 that is derived from backsolving and corresponds with the 6...Nc6 move that was evaluated at iteration #20 with +24
The variation table shows also a move 6...Nc6 with an assessment of +33 at a ply depth of 25.
The D92 e-Book was generated by importing the notation comments in the form of a .pgn file into an empty e-book. (This is the secret that Herb likes to keep for himself, but is actually part of the working way of CB that enables the generation of a .pgn file)
Now the question is why was the #20 used in the population for move 6...Nc6 and not the #25 ?
To answer this you have to recall that the variations were generated to find the best moves that are favourable for White after move 6.e3
This would be 6...Nc6 at iteration #25
Bookup is impartial in the import process and does not favour White or Black. It always takes the side that has to move.
To decide which of the several 6...Nc6 moves should be chosen, it chooses the best moves for Black in the list. In this case it is the iteration#20 move sequence and not the #25.
The table in the comment field actually shows two other move sequences with a lower assessment value. I have no way of knowing if this table actually is in sync with the D92 Bookup image, or if there is some other logic involved to pick the most favorable move for Black.
Herb also asked a teasing question if we know how his table ended up in the comment field.
He simply entered the move sequences from the captured pgn file into Ms Excel and then sorted and edited it, before cutting and pasting it into the comment field of Bookup.
Having successfully imported the pgn file into the empty e-book permitted backsolving with the correct assessment value of +24 as shown in the image.
I cannot see anything in this process that warrants the description of being "discombobulated".
Last time when I used similar logic on his first version, the D97 image version, Herb ignored my reasoning by just saying I used the wrong version. I just hope he gives a better reply to this post.
John |
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theHerbinator
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 736
Location: 48.719153° N, -122.504924° W
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: John aka jott27, going Rogue |
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This is going to be a difficult Post for me to compose.
| theHerbinator, in the Post that may be read at this link, on 12/10/2009 wrote: | | jott27 wrote: | | I had numerous discussions on this subject with theHerbinator and still have no clear understanding how this would improve my chess playing ability. |
I did some work in MS Outlook this morning to get a tally of the number of private communications that we have had since you showed up here at the Bulletin Board. I still have 204 of my email Sends to you, and 213 of the Incoming email from you. |
Those 417 private communications began on 05/21/2007, or nearly 3 years ago. John was expressing great difficulties, here in the Support Forum, with his upgrade from COW Express beta Build 11 to Build 12, and I chose to go the private communication route to guide him through his difficulties.
He and I kept that private communication channel open and busy. From the earliest of these onward, much discussion centered on my plan to fill the gap in commercially available Bookup eBooks (the gap is huge) by trying to make a commercial opportunity for myself by authoring Bookup eBooks and offering them for sale to Members of the Bookup Community.
John encouraged me to discuss with him my ideas about the strategy for making my endeavor work, and I began sharing my ideas with him. I indicated at this time that I regarded these communications as privileged, and subject to a non-disclosure agreement. John would in kind provide an affirmation of understanding, acknowledging that he consented to continuing the discussion of my ideas under his binding obligation to never disclose any element of those privileged discussions elsewhere.
An example of the kind of exchange that established the non-disclosure agreement is this one.
| theHerbinator, in a privileged private discussion of the MSbyDM(tm) Variation Database Simulator with John on 01/26/2009, wrote: | The <BlankedForSecrecy> that you are trying to duplicate is something that you may continue to see as I try to present my ideas in the forums without revealing all of my “little secrets”. I intend to continue to use this <BlankedForSecrecy>.
You could get the same <BlankedForSecrecy> that you see in my images if you <BlankedForSecrecy>. This hides the actual “Tables” component and leaves only an “alternative view” of the notation that you would normally see in the “Notation Tab View”. This “alternative view” is the preferred “view” for the Chess Variations Database simulator. It hides the manner in which I setup the <BlankedForSecrecy> to accept the input of variation data from the Engine Manager.
I would like to have an affirmation from you that you are clear on this point. I am buggering ChessBase so that I can <BlankedForSecrecy> that hide “my little secrets” while revealing the value of the Chess Variations Database concept. Please affirm that you understand how unhappy I would be if this ability to hide “my little secrets” was compromised. |
| John, in providing the requested affirmation of understanding on 01/26/2009, wrote: | Herb,
It might take me a while to digest all the things you talked about.
First, I would like to asure you that your "secrets" do stay secret with me. I have no commercial interests whatsoever, and furthermore I have nobody that would even be slightly interested. Apart from this, I value my own integrity.
In regards to "agreement of terms" I agree with all the terms as you described them. |
I have a host of similar exchanges in the eMail record of those 417 private communications, as it was my practice to ask John for a re-affirmation of understanding each time I brought another element into the discussion that I regarded as proprietary, of a Trade Secret nature, copyrighted, or the like. Each time, I would receive John's re-affirmation.
This brings us to three days ago, when ...
| jott27, in the Post at this link wrote: | In one of my previous post I indicated that I was amused in the way this discussion goes. After having read a few more posts I thought it to be unfair to have said this, without giving some explanations. To be amused might not be the best choice of words, but were the best I could come up with. The total acceptance of every of Herb's posts without any critical examination makes me wonder of how much was actually understood.
It is too bad that much of what Herb has to offer is diluted by his commercial interest and by his frequent references to the inadequacy of COW and Mike's inability to correct things. Herb's insistence that only Bookup and not COW could serve his purpose shows a certain inflexibility on his part.
It also shows a certain naivete to assume that Mike would change his product to suit Herb's purpose. For all what it is worth, I have no difficulties in duplicating Herb's tutorials in COW.
The only difficulty I encountered was the import of the Fritz iteration results into the Bookup environment. When I asked how this is done I got a meaningless lecture on data imports.
Only some posts later Herb revealed that this is one of his trade secrets. Now I don't feel so stupid anymore.
It also indicates that Geoff has only accepted Herb's words without actually having done this. Maybe the award of the Rosetta Stone award would be premature for the accomplishment of translating Garbledegook.
Herb could re-engage me to actively following his tutorial in a constructive way, if he would reconsider to reveal this secret, so that we could duplicate his effort.
Without this I would not be much interested in doing so. I am not one who easily just accepts what is presented in words.
If revealing this secret would spoil his commercial success than not much can be said for his product.
John |
... John provided the Forum with the Post quoted above. At the time, my alarm bell went off with the thought "John is going Rogue and it may be that he intends to violate our non-disclosure agreement. What would motive him to to that? What is next?"
Sure enough, in his Post yesterday that I am responding to now, John is crossing the line with ...
| jott27 wrote: | | (This is the secret that Herb likes to keep for himself, but is actually part of the working way of CB that enables the generation of a .pgn file) |
... with the pretense that he has known something all along, or that it is information in the public domain, when I can fully document that I spent a full month in discussion with John about the Trade Secret that he dismisses here before he grasped the concept.
If something clever can be done by anybody, but only one person knows how to do this clever thing, the endeaver that one person undertakes to make something of his cleverness is noble, right, and subject to civil law in the area of the non-disclosure contract. Trade Secrets are the most important assett of many enterprises.
He then continues with ...
| jott27 wrote: | Herb also asked a teasing question if we know how his table ended up in the comment field.
He simply entered the move sequences from the captured pgn file into Ms Excel and then sorted and edited it, before cutting and pasting it into the comment field of Bookup. |
...another non-disclosure violation, indicating that his understanding of the solution with MS Excel was something he arrived at himself. The truth is, I have an eMail thread that expressly Tutored John in how to accomplish the solution with MS Excel that he is now, essentially, taking credit for.
So, before John proceeds another inch in the direction of further disclosures and violations of the non-disclosure agreement that he is obligated to, he should know this. He has sadly tarnished the merit of his "I value my own integrity" claim with me. There are civil penalties for violation of a contract. I will not tolerate a further violation of the trust that I have granted to John, and demand that he adhere to non-disclosure of all subjects related to my MSbyDM(tm) Technology that were discussed in those 417 privileged communications, as he has agreed to do.
_________________
Nothing livens up this forum better than a little bit of humor.
~jott27
Last edited by theHerbinator on Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jott27
Expert Helper
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 457
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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My dear Herb,
A private e-mail would have been better. This way you just show poor judgement. Distorting and quoting private communications in highly edited fashion without my prior consent is unethical. It would not be my personal preference.
There is not a single thing that I have revealed that you ever have told me in any of our discussions.
You have sent me images of your desktop similar as you show in your tutorials. You asked me for opinions and also not to reveal the content of our discussions. I quite willingly assured you, that I would not reveal these to anyone. Your suggestions of a contract is ridiculous. Blasting it in big letters does not make it more factual.
There was not a single image or content that you sent me, that showed more than what you showed in your tutorial.
Most of our discussions was centered on your insisting that I just don't understand some of the basic concepts. Whenever you were pressed on a questionable statement of yours, you sidestepped by either ignoring the issue or reverting to the tactic of discussing semantics instead.
The two instances you accuse me of revealing, you never discussed with me.
It was out of frustration not knowing how you got the Chessbase evaluations into Bookup, that eventually motivated me to think for myself how this could be done. Bookup has only one way to import data, that is via pgn files. It made me look to see how pgn files were generated in CB. What I finaly discovered was how Chessbase generates pgn files . I fail to see how this revelation could possibly be construed as revealing your trade secrets.
Your point about the tables is equally without any foundation. First of all, I don't take credit for something that is common knowledge and secondly, I was not aware that you would also consider this as one of your trade secrets.
Maybe when you reconsider my last post you might find it more adventagous to respond to the raised points in a constructive way. I would not be offended if you will proof me wrong. It is not a contest, but rather a search for truth.
John
p.s Please blank out my Last Name from your post. It is against the ethics used in forums. |
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