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sjlim
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 Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:21 am Post subject: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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Hi all,
I am running windows 7 (64bit) and Bookup Pro. Everything works as before.. however I noticed that the Backsolving process is extremely slow. This was not the case with XP.
Is it possible to patch this problem?
Thanks. |
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theHerbinator
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| sjlim wrote: | Hi all,
I am running windows 7 (64bit) and Bookup Pro. Everything works as before.. however I noticed that the Backsolving process is extremely slow. This was not the case with XP.
Is it possible to patch this problem?
Thanks. |
The Backsolving Dialog features a meter that measures positions backsolved per second. What reading do you get from this?
Do you recall what meter reading you were getting with XP?
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sjlim
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Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| theHerbinator wrote: |
The Backsolving Dialog features a meter that measures positions backsolved per second. What reading do you get from this?
Do you recall what meter reading you were getting with XP? |
I get ridiculously slow speeds of about 8 - 10. Depth fluctuates alot but I assume that is the depth of the branch.
My book has about 260000 positions. I'm backsolving a subset of these and it says it'll take another 8-9 hours.
FWIW, on XP, backsolving is fast. It must have something to do with the threading of bookup in 64bit. It COULD be a windows 7 issue and/or a 64bit issue.
I can't say as I don't have windows 7 32bit nor XP 64bit.
The reason for the switch is the significant boost in performance for my analysis engine - Rybka.
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kblaine
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Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Akron, OH
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| sjlim wrote: |
I am running windows 7 (64bit) and Bookup Pro. Everything works as before.. however I noticed that the Backsolving process is extremely slow. This was not the case with XP. |
I also use Win7 x64 but my backsolving behaves just as it did in XP x32 and Vista x64. No change in performance. But, just as in XP and Vista, after first opening Bookup Pro the very first backsolve takes about 4 times longer than backsolves after that. I tried cleaning up the book by importing to a new book but that changed nothing with regards to backsolving speed.
It's been like this so long that I had stopped thinking about it. My book has about 36000 positions but even the first backsolve takes less than 2 minutes on my DuoCore Dell. I keep my disk fragmentation to less than 10% but don't really know if that could have anything to do with your problem.
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Ken
I was once conceited but now have no faults. |
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theHerbinator
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Location: 48.719153° N, -122.504924° W
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| sjlim wrote: | I get ridiculously slow speeds of about 8 - 10. Depth fluctuates alot but I assume that is the depth of the branch.
My book has about 260000 positions. I'm backsolving a subset of these and it says it'll take another 8-9 hours. |
This is a disturbing report.
| sjlim wrote: | FWIW, on XP, backsolving is fast. It must have something to do with the threading of bookup in 64bit. It COULD be a windows 7 issue and/or a 64bit issue.
I can't say as I don't have windows 7 32bit nor XP 64bit. |
I am still running under XP 32-bit, and cannot offer any useful insight based on an upgrade experience, but I plan for the same upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit (with new hardware) and BookupPro has absolutely got to work in that environment.
From what you have said, I would assume that you did a full Windows 7 installation on a reformatted drive (my understanding being that there is no other way to go from XP 32-bit to Windows 7 64-bit), restoring your eBooks from backup. Is this right?
If so, how did you re-install BookPro?
I ask because I have the suspicion that your troubles arose in that process.
I am also curious about whether you have tried backsolving with your BookupPro under XP compatability mode, or whatever is actually called in Windows 7.
Also, are you observing this type of slowdown with any other Bookup routines, like Commands|Recalculate UNCandidates...
imho, you should experiment with a small eBook (perhaps an Ebook that the rest of us have, like Dzindzi's repertoire for White, while trying some troubleshooting ideas. We need to determine if you have a corrupt BookupPro installation, a corrupt eBook, both, or neither.
If you were trying to post an image but could not get it to take, let me know as there are ways to skin that cat.
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sjlim
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Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| kblaine wrote: |
I also use Win7 x64 but my backsolving behaves just as it did in XP x32 and Vista x64. No change in performance. But, just as in XP and Vista, after first opening Bookup Pro the very first backsolve takes about 4 times longer than backsolves after that. I tried cleaning up the book by importing to a new book but that changed nothing with regards to backsolving speed.
It's been like this so long that I had stopped thinking about it. My book has about 36000 positions but even the first backsolve takes less than 2 minutes on my DuoCore Dell. I keep my disk fragmentation to less than 10% but don't really know if that could have anything to do with your problem. |
Just to be clear.. it takes you 2 mins to backsolve 36000 positions even when its 4x slower (1st backsolve).
What settings do you use for backsolve?
I use Numeric Assessments from Current Position.
36000 = 2 mins
360000 = 20 mins(?)
What hardware are you using? I'm using a quad core OC'd slightly.
Also which version of Bookup Pro? I'm using - "Bookup 2000 Pro Build 31" |
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sjlim
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Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| theHerbinator wrote: |
From what you have said, I would assume that you did a full Windows 7 installation on a reformatted drive (my understanding being that there is no other way to go from XP 32-bit to Windows 7 64-bit), restoring your eBooks from backup. Is this right?
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yes. Clean Win7 64bit install on a new HD. No upgrading from XP/Vista nonsense.
| Quote: | | If so, how did you re-install BookPro? |
Searched gmail for the email from Mike with the path to the download and the other email with me FX serial number.
| Quote: |
I ask because I have the suspicion that your troubles arose in that process.
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No idea. But my Bookup is installed to the x86 folder in win7. This is the normal behaviour for non-64bit native applications.
ie -- "C:\Program Files (x86)\Bookup\Bookup 2000\Bkup2k.EXE"
| Quote: | | I am also curious about whether you have tried backsolving with your BookupPro under XP compatability mode, or whatever is actually called in Windows 7. |
I just tried this in XP service pack 3 and 2 compatibility mode. No dice.
| Quote: |
Also, are you observing this type of slowdown with any other Bookup routines, like Commands|Recalculate UNCandidates... |
yes. Recalcuate Uncandidates is very slow too. It is my understanding that back backsolving does a recalc uncandidates automatically before backsolving. Perhaps it is this process that is problematic.
| Quote: | | imho, you should experiment with a small eBook (perhaps an Ebook that the rest of us have, like Dzindzi's repertoire for White, while trying some troubleshooting ideas. We need to determine if you have a corrupt BookupPro installation, a corrupt eBook, both, or neither. |
I just tried this on the Anand , Kasparov book. Its slow too.
I also tried turning OFF database safety and ALWAYS solve. Nothing seemed to make a difference.
Another thing I noticed that wasnt there before is that ALWAYS solve sometimes gets stuck for a few seconds.
eg. I am deep in a variation and I hit F5 to backsolve to the previous branch (I do this alot as I explore). Bookup with basically hang for 3-6 secs before jumping back and displaying the backsolved assessments. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case in my older XP install. |
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sjlim
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Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? -> SOLVED! GUI Bug |
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| Quote: | Another thing I noticed that wasnt there before is that ALWAYS solve sometimes gets stuck for a few seconds.
eg. I am deep in a variation and I hit F5 to backsolve to the previous branch (I do this alot as I explore). Bookup with basically hang for 3-6 secs before jumping back and displaying the backsolved assessments. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the case in my older XP install. |
In writing this I tried something crazy and it solved the problem!
I always have my PIECE SLIDING SPEED set to max. I changed it to somewhere midway and the speed shot up to 1700!
The weird thing is trying to reproduce this problem by setting it back to max doesn't work. Its still fast. =)
Arrgh. The hours I have wasted manually backsolving since I've moved to Win7.
I have no words to explain how the crazy bug came about... but be aware it COULD happen to you. =)
Thanks for all the help. I can only offer killer lines to any opening in return. =)
Cheers. |
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kblaine
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Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 308
Location: Akron, OH
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? |
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| sjlim wrote: |
Just to be clear.. it takes you 2 mins to backsolve 36000 positions even when its 4x slower (1st backsolve).
What settings do you use for backsolve?
I use Numeric Assessments from Current Position.
36000 = 2 mins
360000 = 20 mins(?)
What hardware are you using? I'm using a quad core OC'd slightly.
Also which version of Bookup Pro? I'm using - "Bookup 2000 Pro Build 31" |
Yes, about 2 minutes for the whole book the first time through although I seldom need to do the whole book.
I do not enter numeric assessments except at leaf nodes and I do not backsolve them, just accumulations and rate symbols. I do not need to backsolve often because I 'always solve' from the new leaf node when I enter a new line, which, most of the time, is just a couple more positions added to an existing line. Using Bookup Pro b31 and an off the shelf duocore Dell. I have no idea how long it would take to backsolve 360,000 if that is was you were asking.
There was a time when I put numeric assessments at all positions using overnight analysis but not anymore. Not because of slower backsolving, not slow like yours anyway, but because the repertoire got too large to reassess everytime a new engine came along. And, frankly, IMHO the rate symbols are almost as good. Those numeric assessments are not precise enough to claim significance between .20 or .50, especially within the opening moves. I don't put complete games into my repertoire.
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Ken
I was once conceited but now have no faults. |
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theHerbinator
Site Admin
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 736
Location: 48.719153° N, -122.504924° W
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Windows 7 x64 - Backsolving Slow? -> SOLVED! GUI Bug |
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| sjlim wrote: | In writing this I tried something crazy and it solved the problem!
I always have my PIECE SLIDING SPEED set to max. I changed it to somewhere midway and the speed shot up to 1700!
The weird thing is trying to reproduce this problem by setting it back to max doesn't work. Its still fast. =)
Arrgh. The hours I have wasted manually backsolving since I've moved to Win7.
I have no words to explain how the crazy bug came about... but be aware it COULD happen to you. =)
Thanks for all the help. I can only offer killer lines to any opening in return. =)
Cheers. |
I was puzzling over your last post, and thinking of suggesting that you go to the Advanced Tab under Preferences and try the Factory Settings Reset. Unless you had already tried this we may never know, but I have a hunch that such would have given you the same cure.
I think that you were fortunate to be able to get the build 31 full installation from a download location (your comments leave me thinking that this must have been the case). If I had to do a reinstall, I would have to start from a build 16 installation CD and then tag on all of the incremental upgrades, and I am not even sure that I have all of them.
I would like to ask Mike Leahy to make the Bookup 2000 Pro Build 31 download location available to those of us hardcore enthusiasts that are not adapting the COW GUI, and are going to face this Operating System upgrade in the future. Mike, would you take this step?
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Nothing livens up this forum better than a little bit of humor.
~jott27 |
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